AMERICANIZED
Sarah sitting on the stairs of her childhood home
Sarah
Let’s start with the infamous question I’m sure we’ve all received: Where are you from?
Patricia
I'm from Washington and I've been here my whole life. I haven't moved anywhere ever since I was born here, which is a little sad. How about you two?
Sarah
I'm from California. And same, I've lived here my whole life. I’ve only moved houses once. My parents and I used to live in an apartment up in Pasadena, which is about an hour-ish north of where I live now. And I've had the same childhood home ever since.
Raziah
I'm from Malaysia. I was born and brought up there, but ethnically, I'm Pakistani. My mom is from Pakistan, and my dad is from Malaysia, but also ethnically Pakistani. I moved to the US about 12 years ago, specifically to Washington. I’ve been an American citizen for around four years now, but I still don't consider myself American.
Sarah
Why don’t you consider yourself American?
Raziah
Maybe because I wasn't born here. I feel like I'm always going to consider myself Malaysian first because I was born there, and so much of my family is there. But even admitting that I'm Pakistani is hard for me to do sometimes, because I feel that another Pakistani person wouldn't see me as “legit Pakistani”, because I was born and brought up in Malaysia.
But that's still easier than if I told someone I was American. I just feel that whenever people ask me, that's not really what they're interested in knowing. So I don't know why I'm answering it in the sense of, “I'm from Washington.” I've never looked “American.” And for the longest time I was a green card resident, so I didn’t feel like I could claim any American-ness. You don’t really get the same full range of rights, so you always feel like a visitor. But now that I'm a citizen, I have those rights, and so I could claim that American-ness. But I guess it just hasn't hit me yet.
Patricia
It’s interesting that you didn't identify yourself as an American because you didn't have the same amount of rights as other people.
Raziah
That's only a part of it I would say.
Sarah
Also because you were a Malaysian citizen, before an American one.
Raziah
I guess so. But now, I could consider myself more “American,” because I am more used to this culture.
Let’s start with the infamous question I’m sure we’ve all received: Where are you from?
Patricia
I'm from Washington and I've been here my whole life. I haven't moved anywhere ever since I was born here, which is a little sad. How about you two?
Sarah
I'm from California. And same, I've lived here my whole life. I’ve only moved houses once. My parents and I used to live in an apartment up in Pasadena, which is about an hour-ish north of where I live now. And I've had the same childhood home ever since.
Raziah
I'm from Malaysia. I was born and brought up there, but ethnically, I'm Pakistani. My mom is from Pakistan, and my dad is from Malaysia, but also ethnically Pakistani. I moved to the US about 12 years ago, specifically to Washington. I’ve been an American citizen for around four years now, but I still don't consider myself American.
Sarah
Why don’t you consider yourself American?
Raziah
Maybe because I wasn't born here. I feel like I'm always going to consider myself Malaysian first because I was born there, and so much of my family is there. But even admitting that I'm Pakistani is hard for me to do sometimes, because I feel that another Pakistani person wouldn't see me as “legit Pakistani”, because I was born and brought up in Malaysia.
But that's still easier than if I told someone I was American. I just feel that whenever people ask me, that's not really what they're interested in knowing. So I don't know why I'm answering it in the sense of, “I'm from Washington.” I've never looked “American.” And for the longest time I was a green card resident, so I didn’t feel like I could claim any American-ness. You don’t really get the same full range of rights, so you always feel like a visitor. But now that I'm a citizen, I have those rights, and so I could claim that American-ness. But I guess it just hasn't hit me yet.
Patricia
It’s interesting that you didn't identify yourself as an American because you didn't have the same amount of rights as other people.
Raziah
That's only a part of it I would say.
Sarah
Also because you were a Malaysian citizen, before an American one.
Raziah
I guess so. But now, I could consider myself more “American,” because I am more used to this culture.
Americanized
The process of an immigrant or someone who is more in touch with their non-American culture, slowly sharing more of the American values and beliefs as they assimilate into American society; aka for most people of color this can loosely translate to becoming more white-washed.
The process of an immigrant or someone who is more in touch with their non-American culture, slowly sharing more of the American values and beliefs as they assimilate into American society; aka for most people of color this can loosely translate to becoming more white-washed.
Sarah
Or “Americanized.”
Raziah
Exactly, I think that word is more accurate to describe it. Mentally I could consider myself more American if I wanted to, in the sense that I've lived in America for 11 years now, while I only lived in Malaysia for 10. I've passed that threshold now.
Sarah
But do you really want to be American?
Raziah
I don't think so. I don't think I want to be labeled as “American” only.
Patricia
Why do you think some people think it's bad to be American?
Or “Americanized.”
Raziah
Exactly, I think that word is more accurate to describe it. Mentally I could consider myself more American if I wanted to, in the sense that I've lived in America for 11 years now, while I only lived in Malaysia for 10. I've passed that threshold now.
Sarah
But do you really want to be American?
Raziah
I don't think so. I don't think I want to be labeled as “American” only.
Patricia
Why do you think some people think it's bad to be American?
Raziah’s Malaysian and American passports
Raziah
I think it’s the connotations of being an “American.” For those who immigrated, it can sometimes be bad to be considered “Americanized,” because it can be seen as losing another part of yourself, almost like losing a part of your culture. But at the same time, are you actually losing a part of your culture if you become Americanized?
Sarah
I agree. I think the connotation of being American to those who come into the country means gaining freedom in a sense, but you’re also giving up part of your identity and culture if you assimilate.
Patricia
Also, I think some people don’t want to be just “American” because they think Americans have no “culture” in the sense that there is less of an emphasis on a community built on similar values. I don’t think people can really explain what American culture looks like or define it other than the American Dream.
Raziah
I agree. It's also just the feeling of “transitioning” to another culture. For me, considering myself Malaysian while still being Pakistani is also similar. I’m questioned on whether or not I’m “Pakistani” anymore, because now I’m claiming a “Malaysian” identity. It's more of a transitional fear of some sorts, especially for people who are going from one culture to another for the first time. Becoming “American” is my second transition, if you can call it that. So, in that sense, for those where America is their “first transition,” it can feel like the first step of removal from their “original” culture. I think that's why people can get very hesitant, and might want to hold on it stronger.
I think it’s the connotations of being an “American.” For those who immigrated, it can sometimes be bad to be considered “Americanized,” because it can be seen as losing another part of yourself, almost like losing a part of your culture. But at the same time, are you actually losing a part of your culture if you become Americanized?
Sarah
I agree. I think the connotation of being American to those who come into the country means gaining freedom in a sense, but you’re also giving up part of your identity and culture if you assimilate.
Patricia
Also, I think some people don’t want to be just “American” because they think Americans have no “culture” in the sense that there is less of an emphasis on a community built on similar values. I don’t think people can really explain what American culture looks like or define it other than the American Dream.
Raziah
I agree. It's also just the feeling of “transitioning” to another culture. For me, considering myself Malaysian while still being Pakistani is also similar. I’m questioned on whether or not I’m “Pakistani” anymore, because now I’m claiming a “Malaysian” identity. It's more of a transitional fear of some sorts, especially for people who are going from one culture to another for the first time. Becoming “American” is my second transition, if you can call it that. So, in that sense, for those where America is their “first transition,” it can feel like the first step of removal from their “original” culture. I think that's why people can get very hesitant, and might want to hold on it stronger.
“The connotation of being American to those coming into the country means gaining some freedom in a sense, but you’re also giving up part of your identity and culture if you assimilate.”
KOREAN (AMERICAN)
Patricia's mom is considered stereotypically beautiful in South Korea
Raziah
Have you ever been mistaken for other ethnicities before?
Patricia
A little bit. People would wonder if I was Japanese or Chinese. But for the most part, growing up, I've experienced people saying to me, “Oh, you look very Korean. Oh, you're so Korean.” And I would always wonder what that was supposed to mean.
Sarah
How do you just, “look Korean”? I don't understand.
Patricia
I don’t either. The way they say it doesn’t seem the nicest, even though I like that I’m Korean. Maybe it’s because I follow more makeup and clothing trends in Korea? But it’s interesting that even though I identify myself as Korean-American, people just label me as Korean.
Have you ever been mistaken for other ethnicities before?
Patricia
A little bit. People would wonder if I was Japanese or Chinese. But for the most part, growing up, I've experienced people saying to me, “Oh, you look very Korean. Oh, you're so Korean.” And I would always wonder what that was supposed to mean.
Sarah
How do you just, “look Korean”? I don't understand.
Patricia
I don’t either. The way they say it doesn’t seem the nicest, even though I like that I’m Korean. Maybe it’s because I follow more makeup and clothing trends in Korea? But it’s interesting that even though I identify myself as Korean-American, people just label me as Korean.
White-washed
Term unfairly targets those who have become "Americanized." For example, it's a label for people who cannot speak the language of his/her ethnicity or seem to follow more western values and traditions. The term "white-washed" is not really a word that describes someone who is more "white," but someone who has been drained of their culture by their own actions.
Term unfairly targets those who have become "Americanized." For example, it's a label for people who cannot speak the language of his/her ethnicity or seem to follow more western values and traditions. The term "white-washed" is not really a word that describes someone who is more "white," but someone who has been drained of their culture by their own actions.
And the more “white-washed” Koreans, who for example, wear stronger makeup and scandalous clothing, seem more Korean-American. It’s as if there are these levels within this identity where you can be considered very Korean-American or just Korean-American by definition.
I still remember the time when my history teacher in high school said to me, “Hey are you Korean? Because you look very Korean,” and I didn’t know how to react to that.
Sarah
I’m sure you were thinking, “What is that supposed to mean?!” Like, “Yeah I am, good guess.”
Patricia
I think they're just proud that they're able to guess correctly? But I don’t see it as something to be necessarily proud of.
Raziah
Why do you think it’s not something to be proud of?
Patricia
I think it’s just odd when people go out of their way to guess someone’s ethnicity. Similar to my history teacher, I’ve had a few of my white friends get excited when they guess my ethnicity correctly, because to them all Asians look the same. I also had one of those friends tell me that he’s gotten better at differentiating Asians. A part of me thought it was a bit funny because I don’t usually try to guess people’s ethnicities and don’t see it as a skill. But I understand the fun behind it and I know there’s no malicious intent behind their words.
ethnic ambiguity
Raziah
How do you identify your ethnicity?
Sarah
The whole ethnicity question is an ambiguous one for me. My mom was born in Kenya. My dad was born in Tanzania. And several generations before them were brought up in Africa. So I'm African, maybe nationality wise, but ethnically Indian. There's just so many layers to that, that I'm not sure what people are really asking, because I’m confused myself.
Raziah
So when your parents’ families settled in those respective countries in Africa, did they intermarry with the communities there? Or did they only marry within the Indian communities there?
How do you identify your ethnicity?
Sarah
The whole ethnicity question is an ambiguous one for me. My mom was born in Kenya. My dad was born in Tanzania. And several generations before them were brought up in Africa. So I'm African, maybe nationality wise, but ethnically Indian. There's just so many layers to that, that I'm not sure what people are really asking, because I’m confused myself.
Raziah
So when your parents’ families settled in those respective countries in Africa, did they intermarry with the communities there? Or did they only marry within the Indian communities there?
Khojas
A united Shia minority with a population of about 125 thousand people, originally from Kutch district in Gujarat state, India. They converted from Hinduism to Islam in the 14th century, and many migrated to East Africa.
A united Shia minority with a population of about 125 thousand people, originally from Kutch district in Gujarat state, India. They converted from Hinduism to Islam in the 14th century, and many migrated to East Africa.
Sarah
As far as I know they married within the Indian community that migrated there. We refer to ourselves as Khojas, which is the term for the community of people that have migrated from India to East Africa.
Raziah
And that’s for both your mom and your dad?
Sarah
Yes. I’ve always wanted to do a 23andMe test to find out what I am. I think knowing more about what’s in my DNA could give me some clarity and a stronger sense of identity too.
Raziah
My brother actually took a 23andMe test, and I remember being really excited to hear the results. But it actually ended up being a little underwhelming. The results just told us that the majority of our genetic makeup was “North Indian region”, and that was it, nothing else. I think we just wanted a greater breakdown.
Some of us have green and blue eyes, so where did that come from? It made me wonder if there was any British blood in us because of the long history of colonialism in the region too. But the test didn’t detect any European in us, so we were all really relieved in that sense.
As far as I know they married within the Indian community that migrated there. We refer to ourselves as Khojas, which is the term for the community of people that have migrated from India to East Africa.
Raziah
And that’s for both your mom and your dad?
Sarah
Yes. I’ve always wanted to do a 23andMe test to find out what I am. I think knowing more about what’s in my DNA could give me some clarity and a stronger sense of identity too.
Raziah
My brother actually took a 23andMe test, and I remember being really excited to hear the results. But it actually ended up being a little underwhelming. The results just told us that the majority of our genetic makeup was “North Indian region”, and that was it, nothing else. I think we just wanted a greater breakdown.
Some of us have green and blue eyes, so where did that come from? It made me wonder if there was any British blood in us because of the long history of colonialism in the region too. But the test didn’t detect any European in us, so we were all really relieved in that sense.
Imjin War
The Japanese invasions of Korea comprised two separate yet linked invasions: an initial invasion in 1592, a brief truce in 1596, and a second invasion in 1597. The outcome of the war was a victory for Korea and China, led by Korean naval successes, and a defeat for Japan.
The Japanese invasions of Korea comprised two separate yet linked invasions: an initial invasion in 1592, a brief truce in 1596, and a second invasion in 1597. The outcome of the war was a victory for Korea and China, led by Korean naval successes, and a defeat for Japan.
Patricia
That’s interesting, I’m surprised the results weren’t that specific. That makes me wonder if I have any Japanese blood in me as a result of colonization as well. I'd feel a little uncomfortable if I did have some in me because so many Koreans had children from being raped during the Imjin War.
Raziah
That's why I was also wondering about the British part, more as a sense of worry. But we were also really wishing that we had some part Arab in us to make us more interesting or something. It's such a weird thing. We thought of being just one ethnicity as kind of boring. But back in the day, it probably would’ve been seen as something to aspire to. It’s interesting how that dynamic is changing now.
That’s interesting, I’m surprised the results weren’t that specific. That makes me wonder if I have any Japanese blood in me as a result of colonization as well. I'd feel a little uncomfortable if I did have some in me because so many Koreans had children from being raped during the Imjin War.
Raziah
That's why I was also wondering about the British part, more as a sense of worry. But we were also really wishing that we had some part Arab in us to make us more interesting or something. It's such a weird thing. We thought of being just one ethnicity as kind of boring. But back in the day, it probably would’ve been seen as something to aspire to. It’s interesting how that dynamic is changing now.
“I’ve had a few of my white friends get excited when they guessed my ethnicity correctly, because to them all Asians look the same.”
Marriage & migration
Patricia's parents' wedding photo, circa 1994
Raziah
Patricia, when did your mom move to the US? You said your dad has been here since ninth grade, right?
Patricia
Yes, my mom moved to the US a little less than a year after my parents got married. She actually gave birth to my brother in Korea while my dad was still in America.
Raziah
What's their marriage story?
Patricia
My parents grew up in the same church in Korea, but later my dad moved to the US for school. And around the time my dad’s sister was getting married, my dad came back to Korea. My mom’s family also attended the wedding because most of the church members were invited. And on the wedding day, she met my dad, and my dad fell in love with her at first sight. He tried to hit on my mom and persuade her to go on a date with him. Eventually, they went on a few dates but shortly after, he had to go back to America. He still wanted to see her so he told her that he would come back, but my mom didn’t believe him because he was still young and didn’t have much money. I think around that time they were 21-years-old? But he actually came back to Korea, partly because he was worried that she was going to marry a different guy. Apparently, there were a lot of suitors for my mom at that time, so my dad got a little scared and quickly asked her to marry him.
Raziah
That is such a cute story!
Patricia, when did your mom move to the US? You said your dad has been here since ninth grade, right?
Patricia
Yes, my mom moved to the US a little less than a year after my parents got married. She actually gave birth to my brother in Korea while my dad was still in America.
Raziah
What's their marriage story?
Patricia
My parents grew up in the same church in Korea, but later my dad moved to the US for school. And around the time my dad’s sister was getting married, my dad came back to Korea. My mom’s family also attended the wedding because most of the church members were invited. And on the wedding day, she met my dad, and my dad fell in love with her at first sight. He tried to hit on my mom and persuade her to go on a date with him. Eventually, they went on a few dates but shortly after, he had to go back to America. He still wanted to see her so he told her that he would come back, but my mom didn’t believe him because he was still young and didn’t have much money. I think around that time they were 21-years-old? But he actually came back to Korea, partly because he was worried that she was going to marry a different guy. Apparently, there were a lot of suitors for my mom at that time, so my dad got a little scared and quickly asked her to marry him.
Raziah
That is such a cute story!
Raziah’s parents’ wedding, circa 1990
Sarah
What about your parents Raziah? Was it straight up arranged, like meet-on-the-wedding-day type of arranged?
Raziah
It was a meet-on-the-wedding-day type of arrangement. My dad's uncle, I think, lived next door to my mom’s family in Pakistan. Once my grandparents started looking for a suitable wife for my dad, his uncle recommended that they check out my mom’s family because they were a good, religious family. So then they went to her house, and asked for her hand.
But my mom told us that at the time, she had three proposals waiting for her. And she's never clear about whether she chose who to marry, or her dad chose for her. But the choice ended up being with my dad, and they got married in Pakistan when she was 18. And then after that she moved to Malaysia.
Patricia
Wow, 18 is so young.
Sarah
I know that’s crazy.
What about your parents Raziah? Was it straight up arranged, like meet-on-the-wedding-day type of arranged?
Raziah
It was a meet-on-the-wedding-day type of arrangement. My dad's uncle, I think, lived next door to my mom’s family in Pakistan. Once my grandparents started looking for a suitable wife for my dad, his uncle recommended that they check out my mom’s family because they were a good, religious family. So then they went to her house, and asked for her hand.
But my mom told us that at the time, she had three proposals waiting for her. And she's never clear about whether she chose who to marry, or her dad chose for her. But the choice ended up being with my dad, and they got married in Pakistan when she was 18. And then after that she moved to Malaysia.
Patricia
Wow, 18 is so young.
Sarah
I know that’s crazy.
Sarah's parents' wedding photo, circa 1993
Patricia
Sarah, when did your parents get married?
Sarah
My mom was 23 I think, and my dad was around 31. He had just finished medical school.
Patricia
Wow, that’s a large age gap. It’s weird to think how our parents got married so early. Except for your dad since he got married after finishing medical school. But I can’t believe we're going to be at that age soon, when our parents got married.
Sarah
Yes and for me, that would be the end of this year, and there's just no way that I’m getting married so soon.
Patricia
I wouldn’t either. I think marriage is a decision that could bring so much happiness, but a lot of people our age don’t choose to get married because we’ll have less freedom and less time for ourselves.
Sarah
Yes definitely. It's a lot of commitment.
Patricia
Exactly. I always try to remind myself that I should live my life to the fullest before getting married, but it’s hard to do that because you'll always have responsibilities at any stage of your life. Right now, as students, we have to focus on school and try to get a job. And once we start working, we’ll be busy saving up for our future instead of living our lives in the present, because it’s more practical. But if I live my life in this way, I know I’m going to end up regretting it. The interesting thing is, this is a generational trend that’s not really dependent on race.
I’m not sure how I’m going to balance that. I shouldn’t think about it too much right now though, but it's something to consider.
Sarah
I think it's hard to balance all that. Even finding someone that you want to get married to is hard. My parents’ marriage wasn’t arranged in the traditional sense like Raziah’s. They were introduced to each other, and given the opportunity to continue talking and then both families acknowledged that they were “dating.”
Patricia
So your parents were given the choice to continue the relationship?
Sarah
Yes, they were engaged for three years, and then got married. But the term “dating” is so weird in our culture, it’s not a thing. You meet someone, you get to know them with both families’ consent, and acknowledge that you intend to get married even though you are technically still “dating” but are basically engaged.
Raziah
Are you explaining Muslim dating?
Sarah
Yes. It’s an interesting concept to navigate.
Patricia
But why is it still not “dating,” if there’s a potential that they might also not get married?
Sarah
I think it should just be blatantly stated that you are “dating.” But there’s this stigma of having that term around it. With older generations, it’s the mentality of, “Why would you be dating someone without the intent to get married?” While I do get that, it’s still challenging to wrap my head around.
Patricia
I agree. I understand where they’re coming from, but it’s definitely different from what I usually hear in American dating culture.
I think the in-between of a marriage solely dependent on your choice and an arranged one, like what your parents did, is actually sometimes better because you automatically get your parents’ approval. My mom and dad married despite my mom’s parents’ disapproval of the marriage. I guess her parents weren’t sure if my mom would get along with my dad’s family, and they were worried that she would get homesick being all alone in America. Which is completely reasonable, but at the time my mom was willing to make that sacrifice because she loved my dad. Although, I wonder why my dad couldn’t live in Korea. I guess they thought America would have more opportunities.
Sarah
Do they approve of your dad and his family now?
Patricia
I mean, I think they just live with it and want to be supportive of her decision. They miss her a lot and know she’s having a hard time, but they understand that she has three children who need to live in the US.
Sarah, when did your parents get married?
Sarah
My mom was 23 I think, and my dad was around 31. He had just finished medical school.
Patricia
Wow, that’s a large age gap. It’s weird to think how our parents got married so early. Except for your dad since he got married after finishing medical school. But I can’t believe we're going to be at that age soon, when our parents got married.
Sarah
Yes and for me, that would be the end of this year, and there's just no way that I’m getting married so soon.
Patricia
I wouldn’t either. I think marriage is a decision that could bring so much happiness, but a lot of people our age don’t choose to get married because we’ll have less freedom and less time for ourselves.
Sarah
Yes definitely. It's a lot of commitment.
Patricia
Exactly. I always try to remind myself that I should live my life to the fullest before getting married, but it’s hard to do that because you'll always have responsibilities at any stage of your life. Right now, as students, we have to focus on school and try to get a job. And once we start working, we’ll be busy saving up for our future instead of living our lives in the present, because it’s more practical. But if I live my life in this way, I know I’m going to end up regretting it. The interesting thing is, this is a generational trend that’s not really dependent on race.
I’m not sure how I’m going to balance that. I shouldn’t think about it too much right now though, but it's something to consider.
Sarah
I think it's hard to balance all that. Even finding someone that you want to get married to is hard. My parents’ marriage wasn’t arranged in the traditional sense like Raziah’s. They were introduced to each other, and given the opportunity to continue talking and then both families acknowledged that they were “dating.”
Patricia
So your parents were given the choice to continue the relationship?
Sarah
Yes, they were engaged for three years, and then got married. But the term “dating” is so weird in our culture, it’s not a thing. You meet someone, you get to know them with both families’ consent, and acknowledge that you intend to get married even though you are technically still “dating” but are basically engaged.
Raziah
Are you explaining Muslim dating?
Sarah
Yes. It’s an interesting concept to navigate.
Patricia
But why is it still not “dating,” if there’s a potential that they might also not get married?
Sarah
I think it should just be blatantly stated that you are “dating.” But there’s this stigma of having that term around it. With older generations, it’s the mentality of, “Why would you be dating someone without the intent to get married?” While I do get that, it’s still challenging to wrap my head around.
Patricia
I agree. I understand where they’re coming from, but it’s definitely different from what I usually hear in American dating culture.
I think the in-between of a marriage solely dependent on your choice and an arranged one, like what your parents did, is actually sometimes better because you automatically get your parents’ approval. My mom and dad married despite my mom’s parents’ disapproval of the marriage. I guess her parents weren’t sure if my mom would get along with my dad’s family, and they were worried that she would get homesick being all alone in America. Which is completely reasonable, but at the time my mom was willing to make that sacrifice because she loved my dad. Although, I wonder why my dad couldn’t live in Korea. I guess they thought America would have more opportunities.
Sarah
Do they approve of your dad and his family now?
Patricia
I mean, I think they just live with it and want to be supportive of her decision. They miss her a lot and know she’s having a hard time, but they understand that she has three children who need to live in the US.
“With older generations, it’s the mentality of, ‘Why would you be dating someone without the intent to get married?’ While I do get that, it’s still challenging to wrap my head around.”
EMBRACING MY IDENTITY
Patricia and her friends from college
Sarah
Have you ever felt that you’ve been treated differently because of your race?
Patricia
I think sometimes people expected me to be smarter in some subjects because I’m Asian. But overall I haven’t really experienced racism in college. When I was younger though, a lot of people made insensitive comments. They would ask if I was Japanese or Chinese, even though I’m Korean, or they would make fun of my culture. But I think now people are more accepting of Asians, so I don’t experience racism as much. But maybe, I also don’t experience it as much because I surround myself with more Asians than other ethnicities, since I feel more comfortable with them. It’s possible that if I was in a white-dominant community, my experience would be different, but I can’t really speak to that.
Do you have any stories of when you were treated differently because of your race?
Sarah
It’s weird because most of my friends are not of the same ethnicity or background as me. But I don’t feel as if I’ve directly experienced racism, but I definitely notice when I'm the only brown person in a room, now more than I used to.
Raziah
Sarah, did they ever make comments that just rubbed you the wrong way? Or a question for both of you, did you guys ever wish you were white?
Patricia
I think I did when I was in junior high because there was a certain way you had to look and dress in order to be popular. And I wanted to be like that. I thought I wasn’t a part of that group because I either looked too Korean or I wasn’t playing a sport like most white people. But once I transferred to a more ethnically diverse high school, I don’t think I had these thoughts anymore and became more appreciative of my own culture.
Have you ever felt that you’ve been treated differently because of your race?
Patricia
I think sometimes people expected me to be smarter in some subjects because I’m Asian. But overall I haven’t really experienced racism in college. When I was younger though, a lot of people made insensitive comments. They would ask if I was Japanese or Chinese, even though I’m Korean, or they would make fun of my culture. But I think now people are more accepting of Asians, so I don’t experience racism as much. But maybe, I also don’t experience it as much because I surround myself with more Asians than other ethnicities, since I feel more comfortable with them. It’s possible that if I was in a white-dominant community, my experience would be different, but I can’t really speak to that.
Do you have any stories of when you were treated differently because of your race?
Sarah
It’s weird because most of my friends are not of the same ethnicity or background as me. But I don’t feel as if I’ve directly experienced racism, but I definitely notice when I'm the only brown person in a room, now more than I used to.
Raziah
Sarah, did they ever make comments that just rubbed you the wrong way? Or a question for both of you, did you guys ever wish you were white?
Patricia
I think I did when I was in junior high because there was a certain way you had to look and dress in order to be popular. And I wanted to be like that. I thought I wasn’t a part of that group because I either looked too Korean or I wasn’t playing a sport like most white people. But once I transferred to a more ethnically diverse high school, I don’t think I had these thoughts anymore and became more appreciative of my own culture.
Raziah and her siblings in her traditional Pakistani clothing
Sarah wearing traditional Indian clothing for her third grade picture day
Patricia performing a Korean traditional dance
Sarah
I think maybe when I was younger I did, but I feel like now I’m embracing more of my identity and my skin color. And I’d say I’m pretty fine with how I am.
Raziah
That’s good to hear! That’s such a nice place to be at in terms of your own identity.
Patricia
I agree, that’s a good way of thinking about it. What about you, Raziah?
Raziah
Growing up in Malaysia, I just wanted to look more like everyone else, so that meant looking more “Asian.” I didn’t like looking like me, because I would just stand out so much. It’s just so funny though, because people there usually have flatter noses, so looking at me they would say, “It’s good that you have a tall nose.” But people made fun of it too, because my nose was really tall in comparison to their noses.
And I don’t think I ever wanted to be white. I just really wanted to have a smaller nose. Because that’s one of the main characteristics of my culture that’s such a distinguishing factor. And besides the nose part, I just wanted to be able to go out more, and have that sense of freedom that I saw more white kids have. But I understand, we came from a different culture, so that wasn’t as common for my parents.
Sarah
It’s the mentality of, “That’s not what we do.”
Raziah
Exactly. And I also get a little bothered when people make curry jokes to me. It’s upsetting, but also a little boring. That’s all the jokes they can come up with. And as a kid, I would be that one brown kid that would just wear my cultural clothes and go play outside. And initially the other kids would say, “Why does she dress like that?” and make comments about it. But also, a lot of it was just kids being kids, and I don’t think it was ever ill-intended.
Sarah
I definitely had similar experiences with kids making comments about cultural foods I brought for lunch. But going off your memories of wearing cultural clothes, I definitely had that same attitude and I remember wearing one of my cute Indian outfits for a picture day in elementary school.
Patricia
I can relate to both your experiences with people making fun of your food. Whenever my mom packed me kimchi or any Korean food for lunch, I’d be so cautious as I ate because my friends would ask me what it was and sometimes with disgust. I would close my lid every time I took a bite because I didn’t want them to smell or see my food.
But in terms of clothing, I don’t think I ever wore my traditional outfits outside because I was worried about being judged. I only wore them for my performances when I did Korean traditional dancing or on New Years. So I’m surprised you both wore your cultural clothes outside when you were younger.
Sarah
That makes me sad to hear that. Kids can definitely be cruel about those kinds of things especially when they might not be used to seeing certain foods or clothing. When you’re young, there doesn’t seem to be as much shame around wearing cultural clothing or eating cultural foods, and other peoples’ comments don’t affect you as much. As you get older that’s when there’s this realization that somehow your culture isn’t cool anymore, and you try to suppress that part of yourself a little bit which is depressing to think about. Even now I still feel a little uncomfortable to go out in public with my cultural clothes on, out of the fear that I’ll be looked at differently.
I think maybe when I was younger I did, but I feel like now I’m embracing more of my identity and my skin color. And I’d say I’m pretty fine with how I am.
Raziah
That’s good to hear! That’s such a nice place to be at in terms of your own identity.
Patricia
I agree, that’s a good way of thinking about it. What about you, Raziah?
Raziah
Growing up in Malaysia, I just wanted to look more like everyone else, so that meant looking more “Asian.” I didn’t like looking like me, because I would just stand out so much. It’s just so funny though, because people there usually have flatter noses, so looking at me they would say, “It’s good that you have a tall nose.” But people made fun of it too, because my nose was really tall in comparison to their noses.
And I don’t think I ever wanted to be white. I just really wanted to have a smaller nose. Because that’s one of the main characteristics of my culture that’s such a distinguishing factor. And besides the nose part, I just wanted to be able to go out more, and have that sense of freedom that I saw more white kids have. But I understand, we came from a different culture, so that wasn’t as common for my parents.
Sarah
It’s the mentality of, “That’s not what we do.”
Raziah
Exactly. And I also get a little bothered when people make curry jokes to me. It’s upsetting, but also a little boring. That’s all the jokes they can come up with. And as a kid, I would be that one brown kid that would just wear my cultural clothes and go play outside. And initially the other kids would say, “Why does she dress like that?” and make comments about it. But also, a lot of it was just kids being kids, and I don’t think it was ever ill-intended.
Sarah
I definitely had similar experiences with kids making comments about cultural foods I brought for lunch. But going off your memories of wearing cultural clothes, I definitely had that same attitude and I remember wearing one of my cute Indian outfits for a picture day in elementary school.
Patricia
I can relate to both your experiences with people making fun of your food. Whenever my mom packed me kimchi or any Korean food for lunch, I’d be so cautious as I ate because my friends would ask me what it was and sometimes with disgust. I would close my lid every time I took a bite because I didn’t want them to smell or see my food.
But in terms of clothing, I don’t think I ever wore my traditional outfits outside because I was worried about being judged. I only wore them for my performances when I did Korean traditional dancing or on New Years. So I’m surprised you both wore your cultural clothes outside when you were younger.
Sarah
That makes me sad to hear that. Kids can definitely be cruel about those kinds of things especially when they might not be used to seeing certain foods or clothing. When you’re young, there doesn’t seem to be as much shame around wearing cultural clothing or eating cultural foods, and other peoples’ comments don’t affect you as much. As you get older that’s when there’s this realization that somehow your culture isn’t cool anymore, and you try to suppress that part of yourself a little bit which is depressing to think about. Even now I still feel a little uncomfortable to go out in public with my cultural clothes on, out of the fear that I’ll be looked at differently.
Kurta
A loose collarless shirt worn by people from South Asia.
A loose collarless shirt worn by people from South Asia.
FOB
"Fresh Off the Boat" is used as a slight insult to describe immigrants who recently migrated, and are still more in touch with their cultures back home.
"Fresh Off the Boat" is used as a slight insult to describe immigrants who recently migrated, and are still more in touch with their cultures back home.
Raziah
Clothing was definitely the first thing that I remember I wanted to change, so that I could dress more like everyone else. My mom would always say just wear a kurta with jeans. But I would reject that thinking it looks too FOB-y. And so being able to take control of how I dressed, and starting to dress more Americanized, was definitely a first step in having me feel more comfortable, even though I was just technically conforming.
Clothing was definitely the first thing that I remember I wanted to change, so that I could dress more like everyone else. My mom would always say just wear a kurta with jeans. But I would reject that thinking it looks too FOB-y. And so being able to take control of how I dressed, and starting to dress more Americanized, was definitely a first step in having me feel more comfortable, even though I was just technically conforming.
“As you get older that’s when there’s this realization that somehow your culture isn’t cool anymore, and you try to suppress that part of yourself a little bit which is depressing to think about.”
third culture kids
Sarah and her friends at the Muslim Student Association Culture Fest at the University of Washington
Raziah
Sarah, since your parents are from Kenya and Tanzania, do you naturally feel a connection with someone who’s from there?
Sarah
There was a time during our MSA culture fest where I was talking to a girl who was ethnically African. She was asking me where I was from and about my identity, and I felt I could relate to her mostly on cultural foods. It was probably weird for her to see that I knew what the East African foods were, even though I didn’t look like I should. I’m not ethnically what you would consider to be African, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have some African culture infused into my identity. I’m not quite sure how to explain it.
Raziah
I understand what you mean. I feel that with Malaysians too. No one would guess I’m Malaysian straight off the bat. But I also have the advantage of having lived there, so I can kind of “validate” my identity.
Sarah
Exactly. You have that extra level of connection because you grew up in Malaysia. For me, it’s an abstract thing. I wasn’t born in Africa, I didn’t grow up there, and my parents didn’t either. So I don’t have that immediate connection, but it still feels like it’s a part of me because so many generations before me grew up in Africa.
Patricia
It comes down to the question of how you identify yourself. Does it matter where you were born and how long you lived there? Where are your parents from? Or is it also how much knowledge that you have about a country, and how passionate you are about their culture?
Sarah
Maybe to other East Africans, I’m a “fake” because I don’t know much about the culture other than the food and what my grandparents have told me about their experiences living there. I don’t think that should take away from my identity, but also I don’t want to take away from others’ identities either by claiming this as part of mine. But at the same time, I am East African too.
Patricia
It’s so hard to be a part of two different cultural identities because you’ll never completely feel like you belong on either side.
Sarah
Exactly, it’s a really weird feeling. While there’s a freedom to pick from both cultures, American and in my case East African/Indian, there’s also this ever present feeling that I don’t quite belong in either. I don’t know if I’ll ever truly find the balance between my cultural identities.
Raziah
Would you ever want to go visit Kenya or Tanzania?
Sarah
Yes, I’d love to. I think it would be a cool experience.
Raziah
In some ways, I feel that being able to go to the country where your family has generationally grown up, even if you don’t feel connected to it at first, can give you a sense of finding yourself in some form. No matter how removed you are from it, there’s still going to be a connection there because of your family history, and no one can take that away from you.
Sarah, since your parents are from Kenya and Tanzania, do you naturally feel a connection with someone who’s from there?
Sarah
There was a time during our MSA culture fest where I was talking to a girl who was ethnically African. She was asking me where I was from and about my identity, and I felt I could relate to her mostly on cultural foods. It was probably weird for her to see that I knew what the East African foods were, even though I didn’t look like I should. I’m not ethnically what you would consider to be African, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have some African culture infused into my identity. I’m not quite sure how to explain it.
Raziah
I understand what you mean. I feel that with Malaysians too. No one would guess I’m Malaysian straight off the bat. But I also have the advantage of having lived there, so I can kind of “validate” my identity.
Sarah
Exactly. You have that extra level of connection because you grew up in Malaysia. For me, it’s an abstract thing. I wasn’t born in Africa, I didn’t grow up there, and my parents didn’t either. So I don’t have that immediate connection, but it still feels like it’s a part of me because so many generations before me grew up in Africa.
Patricia
It comes down to the question of how you identify yourself. Does it matter where you were born and how long you lived there? Where are your parents from? Or is it also how much knowledge that you have about a country, and how passionate you are about their culture?
Sarah
Maybe to other East Africans, I’m a “fake” because I don’t know much about the culture other than the food and what my grandparents have told me about their experiences living there. I don’t think that should take away from my identity, but also I don’t want to take away from others’ identities either by claiming this as part of mine. But at the same time, I am East African too.
Patricia
It’s so hard to be a part of two different cultural identities because you’ll never completely feel like you belong on either side.
Sarah
Exactly, it’s a really weird feeling. While there’s a freedom to pick from both cultures, American and in my case East African/Indian, there’s also this ever present feeling that I don’t quite belong in either. I don’t know if I’ll ever truly find the balance between my cultural identities.
Raziah
Would you ever want to go visit Kenya or Tanzania?
Sarah
Yes, I’d love to. I think it would be a cool experience.
Raziah
In some ways, I feel that being able to go to the country where your family has generationally grown up, even if you don’t feel connected to it at first, can give you a sense of finding yourself in some form. No matter how removed you are from it, there’s still going to be a connection there because of your family history, and no one can take that away from you.